Towns of Origin in Hungary

Was Rose Roth (1907-1964), wife of Theodore Marmorstein, related to Theodore's mother, Emilia Roth?

Marriage certificate, New York City, May 4, 1929.
Theodore Marmorstein, son of Emilia Roth and Bernard Marmorstein,
married Rose Rother, daughter Helen (Annie) Bercholtz and William Roth.

Someone raised the question upon reading the article about the two marriage ceremonies of Theodore and Rose.

The answer is I do not know, but I don't think so.

Roth is not an unusual name. Just because people share a surname does not mean that they are related.

The Roths were from the country of Hungary. Identifying a hometown will tell us if a relation was geographically possible.

Emilia (mother of Theodore Marmorstein) filed a Petition for Naturalization in 1935. Her information included her birthplace of Abony, Hungary on July 16, 1877.

Petition for Naturalization
Emilie Marmorstein 1935
Collection at Ancestry

William Roth (father of the bride Rose) filed an application for a passport in 1922. His information included his birthplace of Gönc, Hungary on April 18, 1869.

Application for Passport
William Roth 1922
Collection at Ancestry

I visited Jewish Gen to locate these towns. Their Communities Database is vital for locating present-day towns or areas that may have undergone name changes over the generations.

Abony, Hungary
Communities Database of Jewish Gen

Gönc, Hungary
Communities Database of Jewish Gen

I mapped out these two towns. Using modern roads, these two towns are over 200 kilometers apart and about three hours away.

Distance between Abony and Gönc in Hungary
Google Maps

I think it is unlikely that these two Roth lines are related on their most recent lines.

Passport Photo

In the package of photographs from a relative was this small picture. The face was familiar to me- William Gladstone Winterton (1898-1976), the brother of my great grandmother, Laurel.

As a bonus, this was one of the few photographs with written identification on the back.

W. G. Winterton
Born April 24, 1898
Photo taken September 27, 1920
Passport number 95284

If this photo was submitted for a passport, the digital version could be online. The application was found in Ancestry.com's database, U.S. Passport Applications 1795-1925. On September 27, 1920 (the same date on the picture), William applied for a passport to travel to Calcutta (Kolkata), India to install electric machinery for a business owned by Frederick A Deller. Mr Deller's letter is included in the application.

The pictures on the left page belong to unrelated applicants.

William's maternal uncle, John Dunlop Dunn (1870-1939), signed an affidavit about William's birth date and place (April 24, 1898 in Matawan, Monmouth County, New Jersey). John was living at 64 Chadwick Avenue in Newark at the time of his signature. (Laurel was residing at 192 Chadwick Avenue at this time.)

Colorized and enhanced at MyHeritage

DNA Link for Newark and Chicago Branches

Someone with a Lutter ancestor has appeared in my DNA matches (autosomal) from AncestryDNA.  This has never happened before.  (Even the Y-DNA test produced no matches.)

Possible relative in AncestryDNA matches for Jody
(Name and picture blocked by Jody)

The family tree for this DNA cousin had one Lutter ancestor, Emma Lutter, from Illinois.

Emma Lutter (1892-1948) in the family tree of Jody's DNA cousin

I know this Emma Lutter.  She lived in Chicago and married Frank Scaar.  I have Emma's bank book from the year 1907.

Emma Lutter's bank book.  Gustav Schwabe was her guardian.

The bank book for Emma and her siblings, Adolph and Gertrude, were not handed down to me as family heirlooms.  They were purchased on eBay.

The bank books caught my attention because I researched a man named Alex Lutter from Chicago.  Emma, Adolph, and Gertrude were his children.  I was looking for Alex Lutter because he witnessed the marriage in 1888 in Newark, New Jersey, of my great great grandparents, Hermann Lutter (1860-1924) and Clara R Uhl (1864-1955).  

Signature of witness Alex Lutter

Aside from this marriage record and the newspaper announcement of the nuptials, I found no traces of Alex Lutter in Newark, New Jersey.  Instead, I found a man named Alexander Lutter in Chicago.  In 1890 he naturalized, registered to vote, and married Ottilie Dahlke.

cookcountyvitalrecord.uscertificates.com
(fee-based site)

Alexander Lutter died in Chicago on December 23, 1897, age 33.  (Born about 1864.)  His wife died May 23, 1904, leaving the three children orphaned.

Alexander Adolph Lutter (1895-1969), the son of Alex and Ottilie, married Anna Kabitzke.  Anna's family contacted me.  The couple had no known children.  (Her relative was the first to write a guest blog post.)

Alexander the son filed for a passport.  Below is his photo from the application.  Alexander wrote that his father came to the United States from Germany in 1885 and resided in Chicago, Illinois for "12 years, uninterruptedly," from 1885-1897.

Alexander Adolph Lutter (1895-1969)
Is there a family resemblance?

If the father Alexander lived in Chicago from his arrival in 1885 until his death in 1897, this contradicts the voter registration from the year 1890, where Alexander is stated to have lived in Illinois for only one year.  Then I considered the source and decided that this information was not too reliable:  the informant was not even born until 1895 and was two years old when his father passed, so he likely has no personal knowledge of his father and no older relative to ask.

So how is Alexander Lutter (1864-1897) of Chicago related to my Lutter line of Newark?  We don't know- yet.  Let's hope that the submitter of the DNA contacts me and provides more clues.

With a birth date in 1864, Alexander Lutter could be the brother of my great great grandfather, Hermann Lutter, who was born about 1860.  In his will in 1924, Hermann mentioned two siblings, both deceased:  his brother Otto (1845-1909), formerly of Harrison, Hudson County, New Jersey; and his sister, Ottillia, formerly of Neuhaus, Thueringen, Germany.  If Alexander is another sibling, why was there no mention of Alexander or his children, three of whom were alive in 1924?

Like Father, Not Like Son

Applications for passports are digitized and offered online through sites such as Fold3 and Ancestry.  Even if you think that your family stayed in the same place and never left the United States, search for them in the passports.

I found the passport application for my great-great-great grandfather, John R Winterton.  This provided me with his date and place of birth:  December 3, 1831 in New York City.  We are also provided with his signature!  We share a birthday!

It is important to note that "Jr" follows John R Winterton's name.  Do not assume that this indicates that John shared a name with his father.

I John R Winterton Jr do swear
that I was born in the City of New York on
or about the 3rd day of December 1831,
that I am a citizen of the United States, and am about to travel abroad.
Sworn to before me
this 12 day of June
1849
Notary Public, New York.

The bottom of the page is the attestation from John's father that the above information is correct.  His name is Samuel Winterton.  We get his signature as well!

I Samuel Winterton do swear that I am
acquainted with the above named Jno R Winterton Jr (my son)
and with the facts above stated by him, and that the same are true, to the
best of my knowledge and belief.
Sworn to before me
this 12 day of June
1849.
Notary Public, New York.

Based on John R Winterton's use of "Jr," we can now look for a family member in an older generation with this name, such as an uncle.

I do not know if John sailed abroad.  In 1855 he married Sophia Walling in Raritan Township, Monmouth County, New Jersey.  In the 1860 federal census, the growing family was living in nearby Matawan.  (The names and borders of these locations have changed over the years and that is a study unto itself.)